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Post by weewillie on May 5, 2009 21:37:01 GMT 1
Two Germans have been world champions - Werner Greve won the World Speedcar Championship in Australia during the 1950s. In more recent times, Klaus Kilianski (years unknown) was the GP Midget Car world champion. Am I correct is thinking that another German driver also won the GPM world title? Are years known for all three German drivers world championships. What midget car racing experience did Greve have before emigrating to Australia?
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Post by administrator on Sept 2, 2010 9:16:55 GMT 1
From 'Peter White's Australian Speedway World' September 2010:: For 'Peter White's Speedway World" visit www.peterwhitesspeedwayworld.comwww.speedwayfirst.com:::::::: WERNER GREVE By Brian Darby I HAVE very vivid and fond memories of Werner Greve. He was what speedway needed in the early Fifties - a drawcard. Speedway misses a Werner Greve today. Because of his hard charging, not-giving-an-inch style, he was not popular with some drivers and fans. He took over the ex-Frank Brewer no.48 V8-60 in the 1954-5 season, painted it white and, still running the V8-60 re-nmumbered it 13. With Hedley McGee's help he then fitted a Holden 6 grey engine. Greve and the car were very competitive. I was there, at the Sydney Sports Ground, the night Greve tangled with Bill Annabel in the A-Model no. 6. Annabel lost his life with injuries sustained in the crash. In 1956 Clive Toyer handcarfted, out of aulminium, a fabulpous new body for no.13. It was painted all-white with a small amount of black trim, had sparkling chrome work and a small German flag on the tail. It was the most magnificent midget I had ever seen. Under the track lights at nightm Greve and no.13 were great entertainers and they went on to win the 1956 World Speedcar Championship at the Royale. Greve was involved, along with Dallas James, in the the Bill Shevill crash in 1956 at the Showground which pout Shevill out of racing in a crash that nearly cost him his life. The night Werner Greve rolled th sparkling no.13 out of the pit gate gates at the Royal with a Chevrolet Corvette V8 fitted is planted indelibly in my mind. It was a sight to behold. Officials said the engine capacity was too big and he could only do demonstration laps, no racing. The V8 was later removed, although he did appear at the Brisbane Ekka with the V8 in place in the no.13. At one point no.13 was the only Holden-engined midget to run a Merv Waggott-designed and built twin overhead cam cylinder head. Greve later drove an Offenhasuer - the ex Saylor's Offy - again with no.13 on the tail. Love him or hate him, Werner Greve of Germany and his no.13 midgets were huge entertainment for Sydney speedway fans in the 1950s and 60s. WERNER GREVE is the subject of ablockbuster feature article by Bill Lalwer in the latest edition of "Speedway Memories" which is now on sale. "Speedway Memories' no.4 also has stories on Gary Middleston, Jack O'Dea, Bruce Rickard and Rob Maxfield which will stir the nostalgia for fans across the country (Australia). But the Greve saga - which outlines the drama and difficulties the famous Speedwcar star endured a a prisoner-of-war in World War Two - is Lawler's finest work and the centrepiece of another great pot of memory stirrers. For 'Peter White's Speedway World" visit www.peterwhitesspeedwayworld.comwww.speedwayfirst.com
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Post by administrator on Sept 6, 2010 22:32:04 GMT 1
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Post by administrator on Sept 6, 2010 22:32:50 GMT 1
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Post by kiwikid34 on Sept 7, 2010 11:31:32 GMT 1
From what I have read in the piece by Brian Darby and looking at the photos he sent over, Werner Greve doesn't appear to have been a driver to treat lightly.
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Post by tornado13 on Apr 7, 2011 14:35:50 GMT 1
From what I have read in the piece by Brian Darby and looking at the photos he sent over, Werner Greve doesn't appear to have been a driver to treat lightly. Yes he was brave. I have a clipping, from one of the Sydney afternoon papers, that basically said that compared to what he went through during WWII that driving a midget was pretty tame. If any of you have the chance read Bill Lawler's story on Werner in Peter White's magazine. I remember going over his house for dinner one night and complaining about my day at work and he said "you don't know what a bad day is! Try floating in the Atlantic for 6 hours after your ship is torpedoed!" Dad (Hedley) said that he stood on the gas pretty hard and that those who tried to out brave him usually paid the consequences. Chris McGee.
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Post by thirdturn on Dec 18, 2011 0:48:17 GMT 1
Just for followers of the Werner Greve saga, he is also currently debated by yours truly in the Australia section on here.
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Post by youtubefiend on Dec 29, 2011 12:19:06 GMT 1
From what I have read in the piece by Brian Darby and looking at the photos he sent over, Werner Greve doesn't appear to have been a driver to treat lightly. Yes he was brave. I have a clipping, from one of the Sydney afternoon papers, that basically said that compared to what he went through during WWII that driving a midget was pretty tame. If any of you have the chance read Bill Lawler's story on Werner in Peter White's magazine. I remember going over his house for dinner one night and complaining about my day at work and he said "you don't know what a bad day is! Try floating in the Atlantic for 6 hours after your ship is torpedoed!" Dad (Hedley) said that he stood on the gas pretty hard and that those who tried to out brave him usually paid the consequences. Chris McGee. Linking to a previous post asking about Werner Greve in WW2 and the quote above that mentions he had a bad time in WW2, i would like to read more about him. Is the actual article mentioned anywhere on a website?
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Post by youtubefiend on Oct 12, 2012 16:00:49 GMT 1
From a PM I received and sent by fellow member Tornado: :::::::::::
Here is what happened to Werner. As a teenager I went over to his house for dinner and was complaining about my work day. He said" you don't know what a bad day is".-Chris McGee
chris@mcgeecams.com kaitlynmcgeeracing.com
By BILL LAWLER To say that German-born Speedcar driver Walter ‘Werner’ Greve lived a gifted and charmed life, would be a gross understatement of the truth. After what he had been through in the years during the outbreak of war in the late 30’s, driving an open cockpit midget with little safety would be a breeze. The third eldest of five children, Greve was born on February 5, 1914 one hundred miles south east of Hannover, Germany, in a town called Munster, a city of 100 castles. Greve and his siblings, a sister Hety and three brothers Franz, Carl-Heinz and Paul lived in luxury with their wealthy parents Paul and Hedweg in a country mansion just outside the city pampered to their every need’s by servants. With a good education, Greve mastered as a structural engineer. And it was as an engineer that he was working in Mexico when war broke out in 1939. By this time, all Germans and Nazi sympathisers were being looked upon as a threat to the free world and were unceremoniously rounded up to be placed into detention camps. For his own safety, Greve attempted to escape back to his homeland and the safety of his own people, but he was soon captured attempting to travel somewhere between Greenland and Iceland. Taken as a prisoner of war, Greve was escorted by British soldiers to Liverpool in England and interned awaiting deportation to another country. He was placed on board the British ship Arandora Star with 1100 other German and Italian prisoners to be taken to Canada for further internment in prisoner of war camps. At 4am on the morning of July 2nd. 1940, the Arandora Star with its cargo of German and Italian prisoners, slipped quietly from the docks of Liverpool. Just over 3 hours later At 7.05am while 75 miles off the west coast of Ireland, the German U-boat U-47 captained by Gunter Priens spotted the ship and fired a single torpedo at the Arandora Star hitting her amidship exploding near the boilers. A second explosion, presumably the boilers, ripped the stricken ship in two. At 7.42am, the once pristine cruise ship sank beneath the ocean waves, taking with her 743 dead and leaving 813 survivors either on board life boats or floundering in the cold Atlantic sea. With no more room left in the already over-crowded life-boats, and with the help of debris from the stricken ship, Greve found himself treading water in the North Atlantic ocean for six and a half hours before other ships steamed to their rescue. Greve was plucked from the sea by the Canadian Destroyer H. M. S. St. Laurent and along with all the remaining survivors, returned to England nine days later. 500 of those prisoners from the Arandora Star disaster including Greve were immediately transferred onto the converted troopship Dunera along with over 2000 Jewish and Italian refugees from Austria and Germany. Then, on Friday the 12th. July 1940, Greve with his fellow prisoners of war, once more sailed from the Liverpool docks. This time the destination would be to Australia. The Dunera accompanied another ship loaded with children going to Canada. The two ships escorted by a destroyer, steamed south towards South Africa, once more running the gauntlet of the mite of the German submarines patrolling the vast Atlantic Ocean. After a day or two, the second ship and her escort parted company and for the following two days, the Dunera sailed by herself, battered by severe storms and high seas. In a bizarre twist of fate, another German U-boat, U-56 commanded by German Officer Otto Harms was on patrol in the area, spotted the Dunera near Saint Helena and fired two torpedoes! Amazingly, one missed and the second just glanced off the side of the ship and failed to explode. Fortunately for the detainees and crew the high seas and severe storm saved the ship from a similar fate to the Arandora Star. Upon reaching Cape Town, inspection of the ship found no signs of major damage and after some hurried repairs the Dunera was able to complete the journey safely to Australian waters. Six weeks later on the 27th. August, 1940, the ship arrived through the heads with its human cargo and into Sydney harbour. Dunera had a maximum capacity of 1500 - including crew - however on this voyage there were 2,542 transportees. During the long voyage, the prisoners were kept behind barbed wire fencing on board and subjected to ill-treatment by the poorly trained British guards and the resultant conditions had been described as ’inhumane’ which eventually led to the court martial of the British army officer-in-charge lieutenant-colonel William Scott. The Jewish refugees were transported inland to camps in Hay, and all the Germans including Greve were then transferred by road to camp number two in the small rural country town of Tatura in Victoria where they remained until near the end of the war. During the years in the camp, Greve and his fellow inmates constructed an escape tunnel underground that was never completed. The escape tunnel was only discovered 18 months after Greve's death in 1985. Greve settled in Australia at war’s end and made Sydney his home. A chance meeting with Australian Parliament minister Sir Frederick Stewart created the basis of his future as a civil engineer in Australia. Sir Frederick wanted land he owned in Allambie Heights subdivided and tennis courts constructed. With the funds from this project he built up a business in earth moving and with extensive experience as a civil and structural engineer, he formed his own company and specialized in the construction of roads and bridges. Ex-New Zealand midget driver Frank ’Satan’ Brewer, also involved in the earth moving business, often talked about speedway and midget racing, and how he (Brewer) raced in England and America. Brewer informed Greve that his old V8-60 midget he had brought back from the United States was for sale and was now owned by Empire Speedways, the promoters of the Sydney Showground. With some previous experience in road racing in his homeland, Greve decided to try his skills on the dirt tracks, purchased the midget and approached Brewer for advice. In a Sydney newspaper interview during the 60’s, Greve stated that; “Brewer showed me the skill of speedcar racing. He showed me how to bounce off the fence to get around rivals in tough spots.” With the old V8-60 repainted white and re-numbered 13 on the tail, Werner commenced his racing debut at the Sydney Showground and next door at the Sydney Sports Ground during the 1953/54 season. He became a very forceful driver, and many of the Sydney drivers became well aware of his hard charging ways. Racing was not for the faint-hearted back in the 50’s with very little protection, and a clash of wheels meant certain disaster for those who dared. During the running of a 10 lap feature race at the Sports Ground in October 1953, Greve was in a battle royal with Harold Barnes and Bill Annabel. They were racing particularly hard, and Greve’s midget collided resulting in Annabel ending upside down. Unfortunately, Annabel was critically injured and succumbed to his terrible injuries. On the night of November 3, 1956 the 15 lap Sydney Cup was abandoned due to two violent crashes. One involved Bill Shevill and Werner Greve. The two cars collided on pit bend sending Shevill cockpit first into the pit gates. Shevill was taken to hospital unconscious where he lay in a coma for some weeks, but he survived and made a full recovery. The second accident that night involved Brian Moles, a relative newcomer to midgets. He lost control and was thrown from his midget and died on the way to hospital. Greve was never a consistent competitor during the very early sixties. His road and bridge constructions kept him continually out in the country and interstate with government contracts. One of his major road constructions was the opening up of the Bundeena area with a new road into the Sutherland Shire village. Completely surrounded by the Royal National Park and Port Hacking river, the only transport for the locals was by ferry to Cronulla. He loved the quaint little out-of-the-way southern Sydney village, and settled there for many years. Another major road project was the road through the town of Menai. While not racing and with the help from Sydney Motor engineer Hedley McGee, the V8-60 was removed from the ex-Brewer car, the chassis extended a further 6 to 8 inches so that a Holden engine could be fitted between the rails, then he had McGee fit his new fuel injection system to the car, the first midget to be fitted with McGee’s new injection in Australia. Greve had very little motor mechanical skills, and he kept McGee busy by experimenting with the car. First, he borrowed a Waggott twin-cam head for McGee to fit to the Holden, then he purchased a Corvette V8, and that was fitted to the midget. It was immediately banned by the National Speedcar Club in NSW, but Greve did run the car in Queensland and South Australia where he was to race with no prize money and having to start rear of field, so back went the old reliable Holden. Greve’s first feature race victory came on the 28th. April, 1956. After setting second quick time earlier in the night in time trials, he led a star studded field in the 20 lap World Championship, and went on to win from Stud Beasley from Victoria, Sydney champion Bill Shevill, Englishman Bill Reynolds, South Australia’s Kym Bonython, and Victorian Jack O’Dea. The following season, Greve finished 4th. in the Australian Championship behind Ray Revell, American Dickyy ‘Jet’ Brown, and Andy McGavin. He disappeared from the racing scene during the three seasons of 1959/60/61 while his government contracts had him as far away as Darwin. When he did return, he sold the #13 Holden and purchased an Offenhauser midget from Jack O’Dea, the ex-Bob Tattersall/Tony Saylor’s car. But he never really got connected with the midget, and after about 10 or 15 starts in the Offy, the best finish was a poor 7th. and plenty of DNF’s. A perfect example of his lack of mechanical knowledge was told by Chris McGee. “One night at the Sydney Showground, dad and I were both watching Werner in the Offy. He spun out coming through pit corner onto the infield grass, and with motor still running, Greve sat there trying to force the car back into gear. In sheer frustration of what Greve was doing to the motor, dad picked up a wheel knock-on hammer and threw it across the track at Werner.” 0n Saturday night, February 29, 1964, Kevin Park set a new 35 lap record winning the World Speedcar Championship. Three Offenhausers failed to finish that night. Two were driven by Americans Bob Tattersall and Jimmy Davies, both blew tyres and exited the race. The third was Walter ‘Werner’ Greve. It would be the last time the German born midget racer would compete in a feature race. As quickly as he appeared on the scene, Greve faded from the sport, putting all his efforts into his lucrative construction and engineering business. Sometime in his career, he did turn back to road racing, driving the famous HWM Jaguar once owned and raced by Lex Davidson. Greve raced on only a few occasions at the Bathurst circuit and the Gnoo Blas road racing circuit in Orange. He loved Australia, and was a noted bushfire fighter and was always willing to help out in any emergency. He was highly commended when his fire fighting and heavy equipment helped in saving the township of Bundeena when bushfires raged in the National Park and threatened to wipe out the whole township. With help from fellow residents, he cut a firebreak with his bulldozers as the main fire front roared up out of Winifred Falls. 90% of the National Park was destroyed, but apart from minor spot fires in the town, not a single home was destroyed. He was a fearless driver with little regard for self preservation or the preservation of other competitors as he bounced off safety fences or rubbed wheels with other drivers. He lived out his later years quietly in seclusion with his long-time partner of 30 years Joan Brewin in a unit overlooking the ocean at Maroubra. During the 80’s, Greve was discovered with lung cancer and was admitted to St. Vincents private hospital in Sydney. He eventually left the hospital and returned to his sea-side home under the care of his partner where he passed away on the 23rd. August, 1985 age 71. He only managed three feature race wins at the Sydney Showground and one next door at the Sports Ground in his ten year on-and-off racing career, but he did win the NSW Championship and a second place finish to Andy McGavin in the Australian Championship in 1955 at the Sports Ground along with the World Speedcar Championship at the Royale. He drove two of the most famous cars to grace the Showground speedway, The Brewer V-8/60, which ended up being the famous Mackay Holden driven by Johnny Harvey, and the Saylors Offy brought out to Australia and raced by the great American champion Bob Tattersall. Both these cars have since been restored and are presently in the Sydney Vintage club. A prisoner-of-war, a fearless and forceful dirt track midget driver, and a hero of bushfires, Werner Greve indeed lived a checkered life. Maybe the British soldiers who captured Greve while attempting to get back to his homeland in Germany did him a great favour. Bombing raids by the allied forces destroyed 90% of ancient buildings in the city, and on December 1943, B24 bombers from the American 44th. Squadron bombed a machine factory in the heart of Munster. But by this time Greve was safely in Australia." - Bill Lawler.
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Post by tobyhalter on Oct 12, 2012 18:44:29 GMT 1
Two Germans have been world champions - Werner Greve won the World Speedcar Championship in Australia during the 1950s. In more recent times, Klaus Kilianski (years unknown) was the GP Midget Car world champion. Am I correct is thinking that another German driver also won the GPM world title? Are years known for all three German drivers world championships. What midget car racing experience did Greve have before emigrating to Australia? The third German to win a world title was Wilfred Hofer in 1983 who claimed the Grand Prix midget version.
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Post by tobyhalter on Oct 12, 2012 19:54:08 GMT 1
Looking at Werner Greve's life story it is the more remarkable because he was born in 1914 but did not start in midgets until the 1853-54 season which would have made him quite old at 39 years to start a career in midgets.
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Post by weewillie on Oct 14, 2012 15:43:05 GMT 1
Do a google or wikipedia check for --- Dunera lieutenant-colonel William Scott The conditions that Werner Greve and the others travelled under were scandalous.
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