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Post by administrator on Mar 18, 2011 10:16:08 GMT 1
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Post by haflinger121 on Mar 18, 2011 10:48:48 GMT 1
I don't think "great stuff" is putting it too strongly John, that's a fantastic article, superbly researched and written. I've left a comment to that effect on the guy's website. And almost all the info. seems to be from original sources too!
I've no idea who black country biker is, do you? Whoever he is, it's a shame he didn't decide to write a whole book about Harry; he'd have had a ready customer here.
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adeyp
New Member
MotoFreako
Posts: 15
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Post by adeyp on Mar 18, 2011 22:33:31 GMT 1
Thanks for the positive comments guys, "blackcountrybiker" is my google pseudonym and Moto Freako is the name I use for my blog and photo work. I've been collecting info on Harry for quite a while and didn't want to publish anything that was factually incorrect or just reuse info that has been published before. Most of the info has come from conversations with Harry's son, Malcolm and also from Percy Duff, who was the president of the Westmorland Motor Club and a freind of Harry and Geoffrey. One thing that is still confusing me though. When Harry was promoting at Lea Bridge etc, his partner was named as E.Skirrow. Nobody is really sure who this was. In other articles it was presumed that E. Skirrow was Harry's brother, but that was Geoffrey. At around the same time there was also an E.Skirrow gliding with Frank Charles at the Lakes Gliding Club near Barrow-in-Furness. Could well be the one and same person... Any further comments on this one please?
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Post by haflinger121 on Mar 19, 2011 0:50:51 GMT 1
Ah, so it's you Adrian! When I suggested some months ago that you take a look at this website, I certainly wasn't expecting to get anything like that article out of you - nice one mate.
Just a thought about the Lea Bridge promotion query. You've twice mentioned Harry's wife in that article but never told us her name. Doesn't begin with an 'E' by any chance does it...? Because you did say Harry and his wife promoting their own tracks at Lea Bridge in London; could she be the E. Skirrow?
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derek
Junior Member
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Post by derek on Mar 19, 2011 10:39:01 GMT 1
A few years ago I contacted Malcolm Skirrow (Harry's son) At that time his mother was still with us and well into her nineties, she was able to answer every quirey I asked.
It was presumed by me that Harrys wife she is the E Skirrow involed with the promotion.
One thing she vividly remembers was the reluctance to pay the police to attend meetings. I am not sure about this but I think that there is or was a law that states that if there is a public gathering over a certain number of people then the police must be in attendance and paid for by the organizers
Derek Bridgett
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Post by haflinger121 on Mar 19, 2011 11:16:38 GMT 1
Got a funny feeling that law still exists Derek, although probably able to be conveniently overlooked by many promoters these days on the grounds that the crowds are no longer big enough to qualify, sadly.
Don't suppose you remember Harry's wife's name do you?
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adeyp
New Member
MotoFreako
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Post by adeyp on Mar 19, 2011 23:09:45 GMT 1
I'll phone Malcolm and check about his mother's name and who the E.Skirrow was. Just about every article I've read about his promoting days says that E.Skirrow was his brother, but I bet that's just writers presuming the facts. In the notes and scribbles that Malcolm has let me have copies of, Harry writes that he made 50 cars in total. He also says that Walter Mackereth did eventualy return to Cumbria and was running a garage in Dalton-In-Furness. Daltons is only 40 miles away from me so I might be doing some research down that way soon.
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Post by haflinger121 on Mar 19, 2011 23:52:45 GMT 1
Yep, that "writers presuming the facts" thing really gets me riled. Actually, not just me, if the oldtimespeedway forum is anything to go by...If you are writing about matters historical, it sometimes doesn't do any harm to say, 'we don't know', or 'it maybe that', if you are speculating. There's no shame in admitting you don't know the truth or facts about something, plus it leaves the way clear for somebody to step forward and say, actually, I do know, and then we all learn something.
50 cars eh? That's rather more than the 30-odd that is usually thought to be the case, but rather less than the highly optimistic 100 cars I have heard touted around. Do we think that 50 would all be midgets, or would that include other stuff, like that interesting road going tourer?
Anything more you can dig up about Mackereth will undoubtedly be of interest Adrian, good luck with the research!
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derek
Junior Member
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Post by derek on Mar 22, 2011 11:26:45 GMT 1
Walter Mackereth did indeed return to Cumbria after the war. I have been told by Johnny Youngs son (sorry I can't recall his name) that Johnny and Walter set up a garage bussines on the main road leading into Barrow, afraid I can't remember if it was Dalton in Furness. The Garage closed sometime in the 60's or 70's due to road widening and road improvements. About 6or7 years ago Young jnr was living in Morcambe. As for the number of Skirrows built Harrys wife reconed that only about 16 were built.
Derek
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adeyp
New Member
MotoFreako
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Post by adeyp on Mar 23, 2011 0:34:03 GMT 1
Thanks for that Derek - I guess we'll never know exactly how many Skirrow's harry built as his records were all lost in the 1940s bombings. I do know that he rescued three from his bombed out garage and he only ever built one roadster . In an article in the Torquay Times at the time, Harry was quoted as saying he would like to put the car into production, but as Malcolm dryly told me, he had no chance!
Just a thought, do we know how many Skirrows were in action in the UK in the 1930s? and were any used overseas at the same time? Was it 16 or more? Harry's note to Michael Ware at the National Motor Museum does say ".... I built about 50 of these cars". but this was a long time after the event and memories can't always be relied on as truth. Harry's note to Michael Ware also says that he included a couple of photos of a car that had been left out in the rain, the only records he had of his Skirrow Specials. I wonder if those photos are still in the National Motor Museum?
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Post by tobyhalter on Mar 23, 2011 22:00:12 GMT 1
A dry guess-timate might be to analyse how many active drivers there were over the 1937 and 1938 seasons, British midget car racing's busiest ever period. Then work out how many drove (a) Eltos, (b) how many drove their own built-cars like Billy Murden and Spike Rhiando, then (c) assume that the remainder all raced Skirrows? That's the possible answer? Just a thought.
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adeyp
New Member
MotoFreako
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Post by adeyp on Mar 25, 2011 0:05:49 GMT 1
Well, I got a letter from Macolm Skirrow this morning and it still leaves me none the wiser who E.Skirrow was.
At Lea Bridge and Coventry the promoters were listed as H.Skirrow (Henry better known as Harry) and E.Skirrow. It has been widely reported that this was Harry's brother, but his brother was Geoffrey and Malcolm now tells me that his Mother was Mrs.D.Skirrow.
Hmmm - a bit more digging required me-thinks.
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adeyp
New Member
MotoFreako
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Post by adeyp on Mar 27, 2011 9:30:31 GMT 1
Cracked it - Harry and Geoffrey had a younger brother, Edward. Edward was living at Ulverston (between Kendal and Barrow) and worked at the Barrow Shipyards prior to WW2, alongside Geoffrey. Eric was also very interested in flying and joined the Furness Gliding Club, where he was tutored by and flew with the great Frank Charles. As soon as he had completed his dockyard apprenticeship, Eric joined the RAF during WW2 started and was sadly killed in 1943 flying over the coast of Holland.
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Post by haflinger121 on Mar 27, 2011 12:15:05 GMT 1
Cracked it indeed! Another superbly insightful bit of research Adey, and a small but intriguing mystery from over seventy years ago solved. Bit of a sad footnote about Edward's eventual fate but that would have been more than just an occupational hazard in 1943, unfortunately.
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