Post by haflinger121 on Dec 20, 2009 19:46:39 GMT 1
I believe ELTO stands for Evinrude Light Two-stroke Outboard (as they were powered by a type of outboard boat engine) but I have also heard other derivations of the acronym which almost amount to the same thing. Evinrude Light Twin Outboard is another equally strong candidate, and seems to be how the motors are most often described by the marine community. As for the cars, I believe some were 'real' and rather more, copies.
I should think Mr. Pashley will be able to be a lot more definitive about this subject, and also what motors were used in the copies. Did they really go to the trouble of obtaining genuine ELTO motors for them, I wonder?
Belle Vue's ELTO Midgets were all copied from Ronnie Householder's car, which E O Spence had prought back from the USA. They were cunstructed, I believe, in a lorry garage, in manchester. allwere originally fitted with ELTO motors, which I imagine were available over here (from boat people?) Dad fitted his own car with a JAP, it was such in improvement the E O Spence asked hem th fit JAPs to all the cars. At least one did NOT get a JAP motor, that car still exists
Post by haflinger121 on Dec 21, 2009 19:47:22 GMT 1
Thanks Rod for all that info, most informative as always. I presume the car you are talking about that retained the ELTO motor, is this one? Seen here at the Brentwood Show a few years ago and owned at the time by Ez Walker.
Although the sign board says that this is the ex "Ronney" (sic) Householder car, I have heard it said that this is, in fact, one of the copies. I must stress that I am in no way accusing Ez of trying to pull the wool over our eyes if this is so, as it may be that he had no way of knowing. Certainly, I'm not expert enough to pass judgement. Indeed, I couldn't work out how on earth you would have driven the thing until somebody (maybe Eric himself) showed me what the rudimentary controls were for!
Isn't this Elto owned by an enthusiast who lives in the Oxford area and who also bought the last UK Skirrow when it was up for auction a couple of years ago. I think the owner's name is Trevor or Ivor Dutton.
Post by haflinger121 on Dec 22, 2009 10:41:56 GMT 1
It's Ivan Dutton kiwikid, someone I've known for over 30 years and, unless he's sold either one of them recently, he does own both cars these days. Coincidentally, when I first got to know him he lived literally a few yards off the site of the Greenford track although neither of us knew it at the time.
For those who have access to the numerous detailed photos of the pre war Belle Vue cars and also the excellent Mighty Midgets by Jack C Fox whilst I could never be 100% certain that my car was owned by Ronney Householder the photo on page 57 of Mighty Midgets shows an Elto driven successfully by "Ronney" as spelt on the car before being shipped to the UK. There are several details on this car that were identical to mine that did not appear on the others and certainly Ginger Pashleys car looked very different. My understanding was that two cars were imported although I cannot remember the name of the other owner. And yes you did have to be almost a midget to race these - Only Rod and Rob Sayell ever managed to get into mine. Indeed my car did go to Ivan Dutton who later outbid me for the Skirrow (since which I've heard of two more in existance) but comparing workmanship between the Elto and Skirrow it is no wonder that the British Cars dominated. Maybe Ronney changed his name to Ronnie when he gave up driving and became a successful designer after WW2 Regards, Ez
Indeed my car did go to Ivan Dutton who later outbid me for the Skirrow (since which I've heard of two more in existance) but comparing workmanship between the Elto and Skirrow it is no wonder that the British Cars dominated.
I take the two still existing Skirrows that you refer to are (1) Barry Brown's in Canada and (2) the now 'missing Meade" car. Where is it? Can anyone put a scent up to find it please?
No, Guy I sold three Dastle mk7's to a couple of years ago who also was involved in 750 Formula and Formula Vee claimed to own one and a friend of his had a second so both in UK probably towards the east
Post by haflinger121 on Dec 24, 2009 1:20:15 GMT 1
That's excellent info there, Ez, thanks. Presumably there was no chassis number on your car, or record of same kept somewhere in The States that might have positively identified it? I did hear somewhere, sometime, that the Hulme copies did have a chassis plate that identified them as such, but I don't know how true this is.
As for the Ronney/Ronnie thing, that too is interesting. I think it's more likely that one certain sign writer just couldn't spell! I've certainly seen enough spelling mistakes on many many race cars down the years to know that art rather than English, tends to be their forte.
But as far as I know, we are talking about the same Ronnie Householder that was later at least part-way in charge of Chrysler's factory NASCAR effort. He worked with Richard Petty, and had much to do with the introduction of the Hemi engine and many other Mopar legends, maybe even the Dodge Daytona and Plymouth Superbird wing cars.
And just while we're on the subject of sign writing, here's a pic you won't have seen before of a rather nicely written hot rod, taken in the pits at Hednesford over 30 years ago. Off topic I know, but maybe relevant just here to Ez!
I HAVE MOVED HIS MESSAGE TO THREAD HUNT FOR SKIRROW-Admin.
re a third Skirrow-
Could this be the "third" extant Skirrow, ie the Meads car?
About 5 years ago I was allerted to a letter that was published in "Classic Car Weekly", it was from a John Wright living near Spalding. About the Skirrow John wrote:-
" My father brought me one 50 years ago and it is still exists only 30 miles away. I used to live near to Belle End speedway track in Whalpole Fen, South Lincs, and in the forties I believe the last two meetings included "midget" racers. The ace driver was Spike Rhiando (Canada) driving a Skirrow, so I just had to have one!....................As I was only 15 years old, I fitted mine with a Douglas 350cc twin from an ex-WD generator and removed three drive shafts as the car was so heavy it could not be pushed when on lock as it had no diffs"
I contacted John to find out more about the Skirrow, but he couldn't add any more to his letter. I didn't get a cnance to visit him as he was retiring to Cyprus to spend the rest of his days in his wife's homeland. I'm not sure who now owns the car, but I think it is somewhere near March.
Anybody got any more info on the "third" Skirrow?
Derek Bridgett Newcastle-under-Lyme
I HAVE MOVED HIS MESSAGE TO THREAD HUNT FOR SKIRROW-Admin.
Firstly to haflinger many thanks for the photo of the Anglia - I'm in the process of filing my old photos and have just got to the hot rod era - that one was from Hednesford in the first part of 1976. I believe Derek is on the right track with Skirrow location - the guy I sold my Dastles to had a scrapyard somewhere in the Peterborough area and was involved with F750 and Formula vee but also added that a friend (who I seem to remember he said was local to him) had another so maybe there are at least four, Regards, Ez